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пароходы РАК
Глокий Куздр: Доброе время суток, уважаемое сообщество. Пару недель назад запостил в жежешечке любительский материал по пароходам Российско-американской компании http://gloky-koozdr.livejournal.com/2228.html#cutid1 Многим наверное материал покажется детским лепетом, но всё же очень хочется глубже копнуть тему. Особенно интересуют закупленные в САСШ винтовые суда(Император Александр II, Великий князь Константин), - они случаем в сиб. флотилию не вошли потом? А также загадочный железный пароход разрушенный союзниками на стапеле в Аяне. Может быть ув. AvM прольёт свет?
Ответов - 119, стр:
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Глокий Куздр: AvM пишет: Where you have L'Egyptienne? From the report of RAC memeber Shemelin to direction of company and also the meeting with this french privateer mentioned in memoir of Levenshtern (another member of expedition). Capt. of L'Egyptienne told russians that he had captured that ship (Nadezhda) in 1796 and loosed in 1799. But the words of french capt. probably were not true. We cant be sure.
Глокий Куздр: AvM пишет: ?? By the way... Did you had a look on the action papers about capt. Ofterdinger (link above)? If Ida don't treced anywhere after 1856-57, may she is really the Constantin?
AvM: Глокий Куздр пишет: AvM пишет: цитата:?? By the way... Did you had a look on the action papers about capt. Ofterdinger (link above)? If Ida don't treced anywhere after 1856-57, may she is really the Constantin? I have found a steamer (no nation given) Constantine trying to bring via Hamburg to Russia smuggle war material during Crimea War. We have suggested that she was Dutch one, but not as such traced.
AvM: It is only compilation 1810 Wigram & Green, Blackwall ship CAESAR Reg London #418/1810 21 Sept 1810 626 41/94 J.Fowler, master Reg London #509/1810 4. Dec 1810 626 41/94 J.Fowler, master voyages London-Jamaica Reg London #304/1817 21. Nov 1811 609 44/94 J.Taylor, master voyages London-Bengal c Okt 1818 purchased by Russian American Company Borodino c 1827 Owner:Muller&Co Master: Morrosof -> Mentrup Served as convict ship to LO NSW 1828 Master: Mentrup Served as convict ship Co (Cork?) NSW 1830 not listed
AvM: privateer ship Caesar master Fowler,Jonathan 626t armed: 20x18&12 license: 1810 November 10 privateer ship Caesar master Shand,James 626t armed: 20x18&12 license: 1812 October 13
AvM: Глокий Куздр пишет: By the way, Tsaritsa - the only RAC big sailing ship with plans existed, because Chapelle made a line plan of her from half-hull modell. Zaritza there is a drawing and reconstruction plan in Nautical Reseach Journal No.15 p. 33-37 "A painting of COEUR DE LION is now located in the Smithsonian Institution, it is not on general display to the public, but thanks to James Knowles I was able to photograph it. The painting is a fine piece of work and some details were found to correspond with the MacLean article. The bulwarks and longboat hid the water tanks, sad to say, and I have not the slightest idea as to their form. The painting did show the poop deck, her guns on plain view, these must have been no more than six-pounders, more like four. I doubt if she could handle the load of larger guns that far aft. The wheel seems to be on iron standards, I drew this up on the plan sheet, but will add that I am not sure of this point. Her bulwarks were panelled, MacLean makes no mention of this but the painting clearly indicates this. In all cases one must regard paintings with caution, the artist may have known nothing about ships, in this case I had MacLean's article for a guide, things work out well."
Глокий Куздр: AvM пишет: there is a drawing and reconstruction plan in Nautical Reseach Journal No.15 p. 33-37 Very interesting! The plan in the journal made from original plans or reconstructed from hal-model (like Chapelle's)? By the way, I have merged the tiled painting from Smithsonian digital collection. Here it is:
AvM: Winged Arrow clipper 1852 E. & H.O. Briggs ,South Boston 1052rt (old) 933 (new) 2 Aug 1852 Baker & Morrill Boston 30 Nov 1866 reg New York Sold at San Francisco 1868 Went under Russian Flag
Глокий Куздр: AvM пишет: Winged Arrow She delivered all New Archangel russian citizens (more than 300 persons) to St. Petersburg after Alaska was sold
AvM: L.02.09.1845 Newburyport 273; 85CL Angola US 15.10.1845 reg Salem Edward D.Kimball (Elbridge G.Kimball , Benj A.West & Capt Saml Warney Boston Courier; Date: 09-08-1845; Page: 4) 1847 purchased in Honolulu, Hawaii Knyaz Menshikov bark Russian_American Company 17.12.1869 reg S.Francisco (Menschikoff) since whaling , owned Louis Genstle, S.Francisco 223 1/95t 105x23.9x12.3ft 18.09.1872 reg. S.Francisco #12 owned Fredric Clay, S.Francisco ON17963 07.11.1874 enrolled S.Francisco 28.06.1876 reg. S.Francisco #5, owned Fredric Clay, S.Francisco 14.11.1876 reg. S.Francisco #26, owned Fredric Clay, S.Francisco 14.11.1876 reg. S.Francisco #27, owned Orrington Betts 1879 reg Levuka, Fiji, 1879, ON75377 (MENSHIKOFF ) By 1890 reg Sydney, NSW, Chas G. Warburton ,Sydney ,Barque By 189x reg Sydney, NSW, R.McNamara , Sydney ,Barque by 1894 reg. Dunedin, NZ , The Union Steam Ship Co of New Zealand Lim., Barque still listed MNL, 1900
AvM:
Глокий Куздр: AvM пишет: L.02.09.1845 Newburyport ... still listed MNL, 1900 Wow! Long life
AvM: Глокий Куздр пишет: AvM пишет: цитата:L.02.09.1845 Newburyport ... still listed MNL, 1900 Wow! Long life Really very interesting :) Please note that all registers after 1870 give her built place as 1847 Baltimore. Similary bark Cyane ex Nakhimoff was also given built in 1848 in Baltimore, I am just trying to localize her origins. There was bark Cyane built 1848 Richmond, Virginia.
Глокий Куздр: AvM пишет: Nakhimoff Its a RAC ship? I dont have it my RAC ships list. Among anothe america-built ships are (i know about): Lapwing (Okhotsk) 1822 Arab (Baikal) 1818 Tally-Ho (Chichagov) 1820-s Brutus (Golovnin) 1809 Lydia (Ilmen)
AvM: Глокий Куздр пишет: AvM пишет: цитата:L.02.09.1845 Newburyport ... still listed MNL, 1900 Wow! Long life Note the article followed. She extant till 1906, when was broken up.
AvM: Глокий Куздр пишет: AvM пишет: цитата:Nakhimoff Its a RAC ship? I dont have it my RAC ships list. Of course. Bought 1856. 1867 sold.
AvM: Глокий Куздр пишет: Among anothe america-built ships are (i know about): Lapwing (Okhotsk) 1822 NOT YET TRACED Глокий Куздр пишет: Arab (Baikal) 1818 Baikal 1818 Thacher Magoun, Medford , Mass 215 or 230t or 225t ex Arab of Captain Thomas Meek ( ?) registered Boston 1824 bought Глокий Куздр пишет: Tally-Ho (Chichagov) 1820-s Chichagov 1824 150t Ex Tally –Ho Josiah Marshall, Boston 1827 bought for 8500 seal skins NOT YET TRACED Глокий Куздр пишет: Brutus (Golovnin) 1809 Galovin brig 1809 Christopher Turner, Frye’s Mills, Salem 199t or 140t built for Nathaniel Garland, Boston owned by Jonathan & Nathaniel Door & 3 partners Ex Brutus of Captain David Nye ( ?) 1819 bought at Sandwich Islands Глокий Куздр пишет: Lydia (Ilmen) NOT YET TRACED ALSO Elena ship (Helena) 1818 New Bedford 400t 110ft2inx28ft7inx14ft 8.1.1819 Helen registered at New Bedford James Hillman & others 1823 bought New Bedford
AvM: ANOTHER TWO NOT CONFIRMED REALLY Amethyst 1801 Enos Briggs, Salem 270t 97ft 1812 bought from Captain T.Meek (?) Perhaps “Truvor “ 200t Ca.1812 bough from Americans Yunona By 1801 Boston built 206t or 250t Ex Juno Bristol., Rhode Island 1812 (?) bought from Captain John D’Wolf ( 1811 wrecked 25sm from Petrapovlosk
AvM: Which ships are here? Kakiey korabli nakhoditsya zdes?
Глокий Куздр: AvM пишет: Which ships are here? 1st - Imperial navy bot (sloop) Kamchadal (about 1842). The only ship built in Alaska for the government and navy, not for RAC purposes. 2nd - steamboat "Baranov" (same time) . It may be also small steamboat "Moor" built by mechanic Moor in New Archangel before the "Baranov" and sold to California. But the author of that picture as i know arrived to Alaska after "Moor" was sold, so it is "Baranov". 3d is signed as i see. By the way, - who is the author of that "Menshikov" picture?
AvM: Глокий Куздр пишет: 1st - Imperial navy bot (sloop) Kamchadal (about 1842). The only ship built in Alaska for the government and navy, not for RAC purposes. Yes, but the hulks , which ships they are? 2nd - steamboat "Baranov" (same time) . It may be also small steamboat "Moor" built by mechanic Moor in New Archangel before the "Baranov" and sold to California. But the author of that picture as i know arrived to Alaska after "Moor" was sold, so it is "Baranov". 3d is signed as i see. By the way, - who is the author of that "Menshikov" picture? I have no data.
Глокий Куздр: AvM пишет: Yes, but the hulks , which ships they are? All ship on 1st picture have RAC crews on board (Kamchadal too, navy crew come on board in Petropavlovsk only). Hulks too. That boats are also mentioned in RAC papers, and during few decades in New Archangel always were two of them for service in Norfolk sound and nearby.
Глокий Куздр: AvM пишет: I have no data. May be name of book/article is known?
AvM: Richard A.Pierce "Builders of Alaska. The Russian Governors 1818-1867" Kingston, Ontario 1986 Based upon articles from "The Alaska Journal Vol 1:2 ,1971 through Vol 3:1 1973 (here could be pictures with better quality)
AvM:
AvM: Perhaps of that picture exist better one?
Глокий Куздр: AvM пишет: Perhaps of that picture exist better one? I dont know. All reproduction of all that pictures i have seen before are of pure quality. But the picture of Nikola I (the clipper) i had never seen before, thank you. I have only good color reproductions of Kamchadal and Baranov.
Глокий Куздр: Two color version of pictures with Sitka paddlers (but small ones): And paint of clipper in chinese waters (I think it is Tsaritsa). Very small one, from christie's site
AvM: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00253359.2014.962324#.VNY7DEeG98E
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